Nobody Cares, Nobody Believes so what is the point in trying to educate? Thinking of visiting Colombia read this thread first then visit.

[Don Gringo]

The thing is I have experienced sides to Colombia most of you will not. I have tried to educate which is something important to me. I care about people, when I see them enter traps and beleive things that get them in trouble I see how uterly stupid and waistful that is.

I know though that people don't want to learn, they don't want to beleive they just are happy beleiving what they have in their head, defending it right or wrong and living out the catsrophy that follows.

For me I have put myself at risk. Don Gringo, Gringoinbogota has become something that I did not intend here in Colombia. Something dangerous to me and to my family. The truth spoken by anyone is a danger however you try to do it. There is no room for truth here.

When I lived in Italy I asked about some corruption that I saw going on. It was very clear that the mafia or someone was acting on a certain project. I was ask "What mafia?" That is the best way to deal with Colombia. Keep it all nice and fluffy and light and not make any waves.

So that is what I am going to try and do. I tis simly not worth it to try and educate. It also is certainly not valued so why do it? That is my question? I am taking down the posts where i shared personal infomration. It was in an effort to help. You can not trust Colombians like you can trust other people around the world.

They are an envies, jealous back stabbing, unloyal lot in general. There problems they have as a nation, the corruption, the poverty the murders and the drugs all reflect this. If you want to ignore it fine? I don't.

If you can find people here that are not this way, who will not throw you to the lions, people of character? Well then make them your friends. Good luck since they are far and few between. That is simply what I have discovered after over 6 years of living here. Dissapointment in people followed by dissapointment. I have been in 13 different countries, never have I know people like this. Live a superficial life, don't expect anything from anyone and you will enjoy your time in Colombia. I am growing rather tired of superficial relations and the games you have to play to survive.

So Colombia is to be experienced part time. You can come here and staya while and bask in the niceties that on superficial levels are very welcoming and then go back to the US or wherever your from to live the real. This is my decision and is how I am going to live from here out. My ticket to the US is purchased, my plan is in place. I will maintain both residences, it is up to you to decide how you wnat to manage Colombia. If you are smart you will listen to people who have spent enough time here to see through it. I hope I have helped in that.

If your smart you will live as the Colombian people who have the means live. That is they do not spend all their time in the "paradise" that is Colombia. They don't respect or understand why anyone with the means would even choose to do that. Frankly I don't anymore either, I am tired of being seen as strange for wanting to live here. Oh yes they are flattered but really they don't understand it. If given the choice they would live somewhere else. The perfect form of this would be able to live in both, someplace else and Colombia.

I miss Waffle House, Chinese Buffett, Seafood Buffett, Good Sushi, BBQ. Being able to trust that anyone servicing you is looking out for your best interest. Being able to trust in the individual, the system (to a point) Not having to worry if you do this business or that you will attract negative attention. Not having to worry if you upset someoen that they will have you killed. Not have to worry about people who have develeped a street smart way of using and consuming friends and relationships in order to survive.

[Don Gringo]

Colombia "A beautiful country, a beautiful country filled with contradictions" BBC expose

[Don Gringo]

Did I mention that the gringo is ALWAYS wrong, never given the benefit of the doubt, has no right to be upset about any injustice carried out toward him. Can not make a suggestion, can not make a comment, can not have an opinion, can not correct the ignorant, the hypocrite or the liar without being wrong to do so.

This is just a short list! JAJA I have searched for the "real" Colombia. I came here and lived the high life with the wealthy class...that was not the "real" Colombia. I gave that up and entered the middle class....that is not the "real" Colombia. I have spent a lot of time with the poor class.....that is not the "real" Colombia although more real than the others...until you look a little deeper.

So I beleive the "real" Colombia does not exist, it is a complete illussion and which is why Colombians are so defensive and vindictive whenever any part of it is challenged. Also why millions of them leave ehre to otehr parts of the earth. Any gringo living here is challenging it by the mear action of living here. They know it is an illssion and they don't like the gringo comming here and exposing them. They know they are full of shit and they know the gringo can see it in them.

I have lived in three different barrios in these six years, The "wealthy class", "the middle class and content with that class" and the "I am caught between middle class and upper class and I want to be upper class" class/barrios. It has been interesting in each, educational, enlightening and a real growth experience for me.

I am greatful for the experiences and have become liberated from many things, for that I am greatful. Life is all about the experience, it is not about the money which motivates most. Only people who have never really had money feel this way. Once you get it you see what a pain in the ass it is, you don't bragg about it, you don't care who has it and who doesn't.

But since all is bullshit it is better to go ahead and live the high life. If you have money live with it, don't be ashamed of it. Don't allow yourself to take on the troubles of the world. Just make yourself and your family happy and that is it. If you have found some people to adopt as family then cool, help them, Fuck everyone else.

[Don Gringo]

Leaving Paradise? hmmmm? That is strange?

According to the 2005 census, there are 45,421,609 Colombians in the world (42,090,502 living in the national territory and 3,331,107 living abroad)."

For some perspective that is about the same (3,784,693) as Americans living abroad only it is out of a population of 350 million people not 45 million.... hmmm?

When the can't go and have no place to go they end up on this stat; (this is 2006 the number has grown.)

"By 2006, Colombia has accumulated millions of internally displaced persons. At least 1.5 million of them are registered in the government's databases. NGOs and others estimate that the actual number could be as high 2 to 3 million, which would be the highest number of any country in the western hemisphere, and second worldwide, after Sudan. Most of the displaced do not live in camps, bur rather disperse themselves throughout Colombia's own cities, an estimated 40% in the ten largest urban areas."


Where do they prefer to go when they go?

"Colombians have emigrated in comparably high rates to the United States (esp. to Miami, Florida, the largest Colombian American community). Colombian enclaves appeared in New Jersey, New York City, Chicago, Washington, DC."

So what you have is the bottom section of Colombia that has no home and the top section of Colombia that wants out, has money and can get out, gets out. Then there is everyone in between.

Yesterday on one of the local channels in Bogota there was an add for a new website to meet forign men. I would love to get a copy of that, translate it and let every gringo who thinks he can come to Colombia and meet a nice girl and get married to see it. Those days are over if they ever existed. These women will do anything, say anything be anything to get out of Colombia. Do you know that the life expectancy of women in Colombia is actually less than men? In the states the opposite is true. So if that tells a story no wonder they both are looking for something different.

You see every Colombian with the smurk on their face when seeing a gringo knows the Spanish and the mindset that puts that commercial on the air, fills the agency with women. The only person in the dark here is the visiting gringo. Everyone else knows the game, including me. If you want to meet a nice girl, pretty and all the goodies, not poor but independant with property I can introduce you and you can marry her. She will marry you in a heartbeat for a visa. After she gets it no gaurantees.

Think about that shit for a moment if anyone is reading this and thinking about marring a Colombian woman. These girls are not all poor and looking to get out. Many are educated, maybe own property, have good jobs but they will do anything for a visa. I have had friends leave VERY good jobs here because they got a visa. Even recently this happened with the economy in the crapper, still they went. That is just the truth. Pass it on.

ref
http://overseasdigest.com/amcit_nu2.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Colombia

[David Barkley]

DG taking a break from Colombia?
I was hoping to buy a pack of Chiclets for 2mil pesos from DG's food/snack cart, as he pushed it around Parque93, with Rubito strumming a guitar behind him.


Living 4-6 months here and there, can be applied to almost anyone & anyplace, not much of a revelation.
Summer in Sweden, Fall in Colombia , Winter in Brazil, Spring in Florida, basically there is an endless combination of global location scenarios.

Well to do Colombianas still wanting out , according to DG ???? Don't quite understand that ????

[Don Gringo]

Yea better hurry and get your chicklet!

You need a visa to get out. Just because you have money does not mean you get a visa. I know plenty of people who have money and all the things they are supposed to and don't get visas out. But take a look around at the popular companies of Colombia started by Colombians. They don't live full time in Colombia, hardly any of them. You can be the hero and name some. Good luck with that.

Probably the biggest reason people with money stay is that they have family here or they are corrupt and they have to stay to receive their corrupt little check every month. But if they got the resi visa most of them who stay for family reasons will bring the whole family on board with that. If you are not seeing that then your just not looking. It is happening all over the place. Get to know some legal Colombians in the US, ask them how many close relatives they have who were elligable for the resi visa who left, how many chose to stay? You might learn something. I know plenty and they are all working on bringing Mom and Dad and Mom and Dad can not wait. These are wealthy people in Colombia btw.

This is what I have learned from knowing these people. I know it does not equal some bullshit some Colombian told you but anyway it is maybe entertaining for some of you

[David Barkley]

Well go onto a foreclosure home website and see what $89k will get you in Orlando , wow its unreal, enough to make a Colombian envious. Like how about a fairly new 4br/2bth house, on a large wooded lot, with a panoramoic view of a golf course or lake. Then how about having about 187 of them, to choose from, with more to come!!!

I met a guy in Bogota, he worked in the US Emabassy for 3 years, he was 38, he said the 1st year was like back in college, with all the women partying, by the 3rd year he was ready to go back , glad his term was over.

I am still not sold on DG move, like I said earlier, many people want to move after 3-5 years, no matter where they are at.
Maybe DG needs a hot looking Eastern Europe/Russian girl, with intellect to match his wit. Take a trip to Sweden or Ukraine this summer, find a tall blonde.

[Don Gringo]

How did you know I was going to Orlando? jaja That is where I am heading! I will keep my place here as I will enjoy getting away from it all and comming back here but I also miss the US. yep about 3 years is all it should take. I stayed 6! Yep that is too long. I have known those girls back int he day. Pretty decent but damn they drink like fishes, drunk all the time. The ones I knew anyway. I am not interested in meeting any forign girls at the moment, any girls really at the moment. I am interested in getting some property at discount, maybe a sailboat that I have wanted and keep on keeping on. Have you seen the price of boats lately? Yikes! A slip won't cost much either. I can't stand Jacksonville but do like St Augustine for the boat, Sail the river or go offshore but can't live there in that area full time.

[Rubito]

This is my 2nd visit back to NYC. The first one was hard enough on me. The second one, I'm just sick of it here and can't wait to be back in Colombia. If it weren't for my kids I would have NOTHING to do with the US.

I actually just got back from the Chinese buffet. I had no desire to eat that swill but my kids like it so I gave in. There is a fireball spinning in my screaming guts right now. The food here is fucking disgusting. I can really taste the chemicals in it after all that time eating good food in Bogota. No matter how much you eat, for some reason you never really feel full. And despite never feeling full i have gained at least an inch on my waist, in not even 3 weeks here!

People here can't fucking speak properly, they have sometimes not even any common sense. They are not even aware of their own surroundings. Their eyes are cloudy, they look and act confused, and they have obvious serious health problems. So many people here with bad hair, bad skin, can barely walk, so much shit wrong with people. What is it, I don't know, but it's OBVIOUS.

Canada has just as many people living abroad and it's population is LESS than Colombia. Does that mean every Canadian wants to get out of Canada? Actually I can say when I was living there people talked about moving away in the EXACT same way that Colombians do in Colombia. The arguments often went on for hours. But at any rate it is very common for countries the size of Colombia to have 10% or more of their population living abroad. Brazil and Russia have just as low a % of their population living abroad as the US precisely because their populations are much bigger and there is much more opportunity for internal migration. If you want to look at countries with really large parts of the population living abroad, look at the Dominican Republic and Mexico, NOT Colombia. There are also just as many Canadians as Colombians living in the US and JUST AS HIGH A PERCENTAGE OF ILLEGALS. I guess Colombia isn't so bad after all is it?

I know TONS of Colombians who lived in the US and moved back of their own accord, NOT because they were deported. I know many more who have every opportunity to go live abroad and are not interested. As a matter of fact out of those who DO want to live abroad, they are all talking about Spain, Australia, and Canada, most of the time NOT the US.

I also know lots of legal Colombians here in the US who would LOVE to go back. This country IMO is only good for money, and the money thing is about to end here, there will be fucking inflation like you wouldn't BELIEVE. That $89k house in Orlando is about to be worth a six pack of Aguila in Colombia soon!

I was hanging out a a bar here in Midtown run by Colombians with none other than Morphus the other night. The bartender was a woman from Cali who moved here a long time ago. I asked her point blank, how could she STAND to live in this fucked up place after having grown up in Colombia. She told me that she still cries herself to sleep at night regularly, even after all these years.

[David Barkley]

DG, you mentioned boating, now I know you need a Swedish or Eastern Europe girlfriend, they live for the sea, its in their heritage. A Swedish blonde will ask you to take her on the boat, and probbaly bug to go on week long trips on the boat.

In regards to the housing value in Orlando is outstanding, at what you can get now. Along with the neighborhood and quality of life for family. I do not know about NYC.
Rubito is adament about his views, so there must be some truth in it.

[Don Gringo]

I need to go live in NYC until I feel like you do Rubito and come back! jaja NYC to me is not the US anymore it is a soup of easterners and who knows where running everything over. English is a dead language and I know I would not lvie there.

As far as every Colombian wanting to live abroad? Well yea just about, you did it. I can not think of one famous person of which there are many who got famous and then decided to NOT leave Canada for the US. Looks like to me unless they are in love with the wilderness or Maple Serup they want out.

The other SA countries you mentioned same goes, if given a choice, if you went up tto them and said here is a lifestyle for you in the US, your family and all your friends can go too, all that will chance is the country. I know their may be some but most will say give it to me fast.

I think and I could be wrong but I think you might be living the life I want to and not know it. The perfect way to enjoy Colombia since it is many things that other countries are not. Like it has a certain liberating feel to it. You can do what you want and no one messes with you. Now the problem is everyone else has the same attitude so try getting shit done....So when you have enough of the US and all its regulation and fine line and smoothed edges you can come here and bask in the chaos. That is what I am going for. If after six years living ehre permanently you don't feel that way then I will need to know how you did it. Or you more fully integrated into Colombian culture than I have. I am not sure how that is possible since I have family here and lifelong friends. People who know me better than anyone anywhere both in the US and here in Colombia. Without them I would be lost. In particular in the survival games I ahve needed to play as of recent. The shit you have to do....That I think is what I am tired of.

[Rubito]

Well, I've said it before and it's not to try and piss you off, but I really think that if you have THAT many problems with people here and they treat you THAT badly, they must have written you off. And I do think it's because you are stepping on their toes and don't even know it somehow.

One area where Colombia is the exact OPPOSITE of Canada. People help each other out here in a BIG way, at least, in MY experience. You are expected to really help your friends out to the best of your abilities, and in turn you can count on them to do shit for you that a North American friend would NEVER do, you wouldn't even think of asking. It may be very possible that the people you associate with close themselves to you because they find YOU closed. It's certainly not the norm here.

[David Barkley]

DG & Ribito , Here is what $90k gets you in Orlando:

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Orlando_FL/beds-3/...